The current malaise and monotony of self-isolation trumps only one other thing, unoriginal sneaker releases. Saucony Originals and Lapstone & Hammer’s first official collaboration is anything but unoriginal (no pun intended). This two-shoe collection draws from the two brands Pennsylvania roots and the Native American Lenape word “saconk” which translates to “where two rivers run together” which stands to represent the two brands uniting to form a stronger power. Fresh off a Raised by Wolves collaborative release in January, we took a few minutes to talk with Saucony Originals Product Line Manager, Eric Smolin, about this latest Originals project, the “Two Rivers” Courageous Moc, with Philadelphia brand Lapstone & Hammer.

Epsilon: How'd this collaboration come about? Obviously, Lapstone and Originals has had a longstanding relationship but what made you guys decide to take the leap and make something together?

Eric: For us, this project was about supporting those that support our brand.  Brian had always been a huge advocate of Saucony through his City Blue doors and once we had eyes on his vision for Lapstone & Hammer, coupled with Saucony originating in Kutztown, Pennsylvania – this was a no-brainer. 

Epsilon: How was it working with Brian and Racs and their team? From their social media presence is clear they're very hands-on and deeply creative, how was it working with that energy in the design process?

Eric: Brian and I go back quite a few years – so the working trust has already been built.  We knew that we had each other’s best interest at heart & quickly had an understanding of what this could turn into.  Plus, we probably hold some of the longest phone conversations in the industry (seriously – we can both talk for hours).  I will admit that working with Anthony (Rac) was a bit of a wild card.  I was aware of some of the incredible work he’d be doing but didn’t know much about him.  But in the end, Rac just added another passionate voice to the project and showcased some of that vision he’s becoming known for.

Epsilon: The Moc design and details are very unique and a bold (I really wanted to say Courageous) departure from most of your other collaborations or in-house color changes, did they blow your mind wanting to create something so out of the box?

Eric: I appreciated the approach they took here – they wanted to do something different and we wanted to deliver on that.  Most collaborations try push boundaries in design and thought this was done in an elegant way; creating something new while elevating a heritage silhouette.  In a deeper synergistic way, the Courageous is the right choice given the historical theme of the project.

Epsilon: Details are a big deal with collaborations like these. How hard was it incorporating all the details like the hand-stitching, sherpa and calf-skin leather lining, and ripple gum outsole while still making it reasonably priced?

Eric: We’re fortunate to have a talented team working on keeping costs down for these projects & hope we can continue to deliver on this in the future.

Epsilon: Do you feel like you're constantly in competition with yourself and working to top the last collaborative project?

Eric: Not all projects are created equal so that’s difficult to answer but we learn from every one of these projects; whether it’s how to design the next project with just a little more finesse or how we could change the roll-out to ensure a quicker sell-thru, etc.  Our main goal is to always provide the best product we can for the collaborative partners – regardless if it’s a globally renowned brand or regional retailer.

Epsilon: The "Two Rivers" theme is a really strong one. Do brands like Lapstone come to the table knowing there's a high bar for storytelling and thematic inspiration when it comes to Originals collaborations? Do you pride yourselves on knowing that's an expectation?

Eric: Yes & absolutely.  We’ve had an incredible run of thematic shoes recently and have even had retailers help tell stories about archival bringbacks. If you didn’t see our work at ComplexCon in Chicago last year, we told a story of a designer who locked himself in a fallout shelter to save his prized shoe design – the Grid Web.  We then asked Bodega to help support the OG launch of the Grid Azura 2000 and they told a conspiracy story about how that shoe never released in 1998 (it did – but people were convinced otherwise).  That story was basically a prequel to the Grid Web tale.  And those weren’t even collaborations!  We’re just focused on telling stories, weaving them into the history books in some way other than just another launch.  We want to give everything its own reason to exist.  When we get to do it with a collaborator – it just gives us a bigger audience to do it. 

Epsilon: What are your favorite details of the mocs? 

Eric: I love the stitching details on the three dots (logo) and the back heel.  We also infused cork into the top wedge of the midsole and thought that was interesting.  And not to be forgotten, the packaging was incredible.  The marbled box represents the marble in the backroom at Lapstone; a cool touch.

Additional Information:

• Brian had originally pitched the moccasin toe idea in 2016 as a secondary concept to another project, and I had said no at the time (to both concepts). In retrospect, I won’t say that I’m happy about that now, but it did force his team to refine the idea and put it on steroids. I think conceptually and through the new execution, it’s better than we could have ever expected. 

• The most significant issue we faced in the creation of the shoe is that of our current line-up for Originals, there wasn’t a ton of silhouettes that had a clean toe like the Courageous.  As you can see, the mudguard on the Courageous goes underneath the paneling at the midfoot making the moccasin stitch doable; whereas every other model we had inline, the mudguard goes over the midfoot paneling.